Kris is honored to welcome Music Journalist and Metal Authority, Martin Popoff.
Liner Notes:
Martin has been called heavy metal's most widely recognized journalist" with 75 books on hard rock, heavy metal, and classic rock. He holds the unofficial record for the most music reviews with more than 7000 and counting. Now, he uses his metal expertise to tell the complete story of fellow Canadians in ANTHEM: Rush in the 70s. It is the first in the Rush Across the Decades series (ECW Press), and a must-have for any Rush enthusiast.
Anthem: Rush in the 70s is available in Nook and Hardcover
Visit Martin online
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Special Thanks: Martin Popoff, Shelly Jachetta and Joelle Fuller.
Dave Grohl appears courtesy of Hatchet.
Original music by Mike Bowman.
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About the Podcast:
‘TEXT PROSE AND ROCK N ROLL’- is the only podcast dedicated to the written account of musicians. From artist memoirs to band bios, and anything in between. You'll hear first accounts from those who lived the lifestyle; a Book Club that rocks - literally.
It was Created, Hosted & Executive Produced by Kris Kosach.
It was Produced & Edited by Charlene Goto of Go-To Productions.
For more on the show, visit the website.
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UNEDITED FROM ORIGINAL INTERVIEW:
TPR - Martin Popoff - Rush - INTV - RAW
[00:00:00] Kris Kosach: [00:00:00] But a stumbled through my questions. Uh, all right, so you've, I, by the way, there will be an intro to this so I can just jump right into it and we have a real conversation like we've already been having for five minutes. Um, you've written about rush before, and you kind of go into the answer for this next question a little bit in your forward, but you, can you tell us why you decided to write this.
And the forthcoming to book books in your rush, I guess we'd call it Chronicles or a trilogy. Why did you decide to revisit rush.
Martin Popoff: [00:00:33] Yeah, it's a little bit of a long story. So I'll, I'll try to keep it as brief as possible. But, uh, so, so I put out the official rush biography, uh, back in 2003 contents under pressure through this same publisher that we're doing Anthem Russia in the seventies.
So that's the first thing. And then along the way, I had a rush illustrated history. I thought I can never write on Russia again, but that was a very different book. And I used a bunch of outside press in that one, and then we got [00:01:00] sort of famous rock. Journalists to write record reviews of every album. So fine.
That's a whole different book. Then I got the opportunity to do another rush book, and that was rush album by album. And I did this series of these five books like this. And for those, all we did was, um, basically get, you know, famous people and rush experts. And then we have a Q and a on every studio album.
So that was totally different again. And then what happened was, um. I had worked also on the rush movie with the, with the banger guys, the banger films, people beyond the lightest stage. Great movie. Um, but basically I was in on the research phase and then transcribing that. So one day I just thought, you know, there's so much stuff we didn't use for the movie.
It'd be a shame to see this. Uh, you know, never. Never see the light of day. What if we made a deal and I flipped them some dollars and basically said, look, if I can use this stuff, I'm going to go away and I'm going to write, you know, the ultimate rush book are way more of a rush book. Put it that way. And I was even willing to like, not even like do it even without a deal, like without even having [00:02:00] a publishing deal.
But I went back to ECW and the way. This worked well is because this is now, you know, the update of the old book, which was not very long. It was like a 66,000 word book, and so I started writing it. And you know, based on this was going to be the, you know, the mother of all rushed books. And I quickly realized I had enough for three books and I started partitioning and saying, how can I break this up?
And essentially what I did is I wrote three separate rush books that are each about 125,000 words. So we got Anthem rush in the seventies. Limelight rush in the eighties and driven Russia in the nineties and in quote marks in the end, that's the name of a rush song, right? So it goes all the way up to the end, and now it's like, like this big, huge, all of these books are bigger than my previous rush books and the three tell the story.
So it's like my final word on rush, I swear, you know, not good anyways, but hopefully I won't be writing on Russia anymore. But that's, that's kind of the, the story of white hat.
Kris Kosach: [00:02:58] Okay. I just, I wonder, did, [00:03:00] uh, did Neil Peart death like a while back there play any part in you wanting to revisit this or did that just happen to happen while you were collecting everything.
Martin Popoff: [00:03:10] No, I, I, I had actually finished writing all three of these almost a good year and a half ago. Um, so Neil's death, uh, was much, much later. They had all been finished for a long time. Um, and then we decided partly through laziness, partly through, look w. It's painful. Let's try not, let's try, maybe only talk about this once.
I didn't do any rewriting of the first one. No rewriting of the second one. But the last one's going to obviously need a little bit of an update to the story when, when we get around to putting that out. But, but the next one is out in, um. October this year. And then the third one is planned for spring 2021.
So we still got some time on that. But, uh, no, that was quite a shock. Uh, I, I didn't know anything about it. I mean, they kept it quiet, uh, very, very well. I, I really just found out [00:04:00] about it when everybody else found out about it, but yeah. What a shock when you're not, not expected at all.
Kris Kosach: [00:04:05] Yeah. No, no, no, no.
And I want to talk about Neil a little bit more, but we'll talk about the chronology of the band. So we'll get to Neil after. After an album or so. Um, so let's talk about rush then. Um, they all, they are very Canadian, aren't they? They're all very humble. They're all very kind. Uh, they all come from completely different backgrounds, and yet.
There are a great number of similarities. Can you speak to that a little bit?
Martin Popoff: [00:04:35] Yeah, so they're from as Canadian a place as you can get the suburbs of Toronto, so the biggest city, and it's the suburbs and the suburbs of Toronto, or just like where I grew up, which was a small town. Uh, out West, which literally the houses all look the same.
I mean, all of the suburbs all over Canada, probably the States do essentially look the same, but, um, but no, so, so they, they did have, um, you know, [00:05:00] immigrant parents were, you know, working hard parents. Uh, Alex and Getty's parents both came from Europe and Neil grew up in a little more of a rural environment.
So he has his, uh. Father had a, had a thriving farm equipment business, which Neil worked at on and off. So he's, he stood, but he's also from Ontario and yeah, they, they were very Canadian in that, um. You know, they, they, you know, probably the biggest thing is they never moved away except for Neil much later in life, moved to California.
But, but, um, Getty and Alex always lived in and around Toronto, so they never left this area. So, you know, a lot of bands, even just for the career side of it, we'll, we'll move to a. LA essentially, not really New York. Um, yeah, it's, it's funny, I haven't heard too many bands ever since we moved to New York to make it, uh, it's hard as a rock and roll band.
I mean, but yeah. You know, pretty many bands move to LA for that reason, but they stayed here. But the thing is, they toured a lot in the stakes. They, they recognized right away that we have to go into the States and spend, [00:06:00] you know, most of our lives. Uh, in the States touring, uh, to make it well, but yeah, they, you know, it has been said, they have these Canadian traits.
They're very, uh, down to earth and kind of dependable. Uh, you know, there's, it's gotta be the most scandal free band that you could imagine. Really no scandals with rush. Uh, so that's good. And, and you even notice it in the, uh, in the office in the organization, like when people sign on basically their employees for life.
I mean, most people have been there since the beginning. They only had one manager.
Kris Kosach: [00:06:32] One manager for all those years,
Martin Popoff: [00:06:35] and he was something like 16 or 17 years old when he started managing me. So like he was, I believe he's, he's younger than they are by a year or two. Um, don't quote me on that. I'm not positive about that.
But basically he was a kid. He really was, um, right. And, uh, just a real hustler and go get her. And, and it eventually sorted all if they learned everything by the seat of their pants. Right. But, um. [00:07:00] You know, rush didn't put out their first album until a good. Five years after they were a band, call it four.
Um, so, so they did pay some dues at the beginning before they were actually, you know, they were somewhat mature guys. Um, you know, by the time 74, 75 rolls around and they put out an album and quickly get a deal, and the rest is history.
Kris Kosach: [00:07:19] Yeah, absolutely. I want to talk about that record deal cause I am a radio girl and I just think that this is so exciting because it's, it's, it was really a special time in music, I think when music directors could still play a record, they got in the mail.
And on the air and not be fired by some corporate big suit in New York city. Uh, so please tell me a little bit about what Donna Halpern did and, uh, how, how they got their first airplay in Cleveland.
Martin Popoff: [00:07:51] Yeah, so, so Donna, basically, I guess the way she calls it now, I'm remembering this from the movie, I haven't, I haven't thought about this for a long time, but [00:08:00] there's a long song on the first album called working man, and she says, we called it a bathroom song.
Kris Kosach: [00:08:05] My God. Right? Those, those bathrooms songs are legendary. I have to tell you, I had two or three that I would always put on too, because in those days you were playing vinyl. You were playing the station I worked at anyway, it was very much like a brush type of station, AOR station. And um, and sometimes it was a vinyl record or sometimes it was a disc, uh, or CD.
But a lot of times it was the old vinyl and you literally had to run. Down the hallway. So when a rest record came on, it was brilliant cause you could walk down the hallway. So I'm sorry, I, I, I digress.
Martin Popoff: [00:08:44] Yeah. So, so, so basically they started playing this album with working men and finding my way and all that.
And, and people were calling in saying, is this the new led Zeppelin record? Cause if you think about it, I mean, led Zeppelin hadn't had anything else since houses of the Holy, and they weren't going to have anything out until physical graffiti [00:09:00] in 75 so. But it sounded a little bit like zap when it was heavy.
It was power trio ish, and it had the singer that, you know, I don't think he sounds like Robert plant, but you could say any, he did do a couple of TV ads and stuff on that, but uh, but essentially, um, you know, they instantly liked it. You have to remember there weren't that many heavy albums back then. I mean, uh, so it stood out just for that, but it really stood out because of that voice.
And then, you know, the, the whole thing about working, man, Cleveland's a working class town and you know. Come home, I get myself in high school, beer and all that kind of thing. Right? So, so it was a, it was a perfect song. Core Cleveland is, is exactly what Donna helper says, right? So, um. But basically, um, yeah, it, it kinda took off.
And, uh, and he was getting a lot of requests and essentially cliff Bernstein, who is now, you know, super big manager guy with cute prime, right at the time, he was working out of the mercury office in Chicago, and he quickly got a, you know, got wind of this thing. And, uh, I think the way his [00:10:00] story, he explains it, it was a weekend, but he figured out, Oh, you know, get, get it to the.
Yeah. People higher up and let's sign this band and essentially off of this record, that was an indie record in Canada. It wasn't indie very long, a matter of a few months, and they, and they were quickly signed to mercury and then, you know, stable situation basically moving forward.
Kris Kosach: [00:10:20] Yeah. I think you also say in the story.
Somehow that a and M in Canada had dropped to them, but somebody was still a champion of their work and literally handed it to cliff. Is that right? Yeah. I
Martin Popoff: [00:10:35] forgot that story. Yeah. I mean, not drop them, but, but you know, did, did I like, um, passed on them? Yeah. So, um, yeah, I believe that's right. So, so yeah, that's, that's how it works.
If somebody, somebody in the industry here, uh, had recommended it to cliff. Uh, yeah, this up. And, uh, and basically, you know, it's, it's a pretty good, valuable signing because like I say, there weren't that many baby bands that [00:11:00] were this heavy, and it, it was, it was competently recorded. And played and all that stuff.
And, and the whole length of it. I mean, there's really only like one and a half mellow songs on it. So for 1974 I mean, moister cults got a couple albums out. Aerosmith and kiss are both starting, you know, more or less. 74 73 there's that great Montrose album out, but before that, everything has kind of like post British blues boom, right?
It's, it's mountain and cactus. There's not much in America. That's. That sounds like this bad company is just just about to get going. So, um, it was, it definitely stood out from the pack. Yeah,
Kris Kosach: [00:11:37] that's, wow. Um, their, and their, their work ethic went to say you guys got going. They didn't stop. It was tour bright studio.
Tour rights studio. Right. Um, they never had a break.
Martin Popoff: [00:11:50] Yes. For definitely for the, for the, uh, auspices or, or span of the lifetime of this book. Um, this first. You know what, which one's on the book. That's on the [00:12:00] seventies uh, in the seventies. They were like every other seventies band where they, they essentially, you're right.
I mean, they put a lots and lots of records regularly. They even had, you know, all of these bands, people use this, you know, people kind of get lazy and say, Oh, bands would put out two records a year, the seventies. Well. Most bands only did that once. Um, if they did it at all, but Russia is one that did that one.
So they had, they had two records in 1975. Right. And they also squeezed in a live album as well. So they had lots of records and they basically, like I say, they, they, they went to that base that Cleveland was in, along with, you know, Pittsburgh and st Louis and Cincinnati and all these places, and, and essentially became one of that, uh, as Aerosmith calls a blue Jean army bands.
Right. You know. Where, where it's basically teenage guys in, in jeans and Jean jackets showing up to these shows of lack Oak, Arkansas, bluish or called and Aerosmith and kiss and Ted Nugent and wishbone Ash. And your eye heat. Your AIQ was their first big tour, but that, that turned up to be their anchor bread and butter, place [00:13:00] the, the rust belt, and then down into the South.
And then, and then slowly spread out to the coasts. And, and Canada was, uh, Canada was just. It did not even get preferential treatment. I mean, right. In the very, very early days, Ontario, the province of Ontario got preferential treatment, but not the rest of Canada. I would say, you know, most corners of America got played more than you know, than, than even pretty, pretty well-traveled corners of Canada.
Wow. That's interesting.
Kris Kosach: [00:13:30] You would think that they'd want to be closer to home, but, uh. That's not entirely up to them. Tell us about some of the people that they toured with because there was, there was some hi-jinks and they were definitely not treated very well by all of the bands they were opening for, but there were some big names they opened for tell us who some of
Martin Popoff: [00:13:50] them were.
Yeah. So I mean, early on it was your eye heap was the first one in your eye. He'd guys were, were really quite nice to them and show them the ropes basically. And, and they loved [00:14:00] it and they were in awe and this was amazing. But they toured with kiss early on and they got on with kiss, you know, kiss. The guys in kiss are real kind of musicologist, music lover guys.
So they appreciated what Russia was doing, even though it was something totally different to them. But they, they all got along and, you know, they can appreciate the musicianship of Russia as well. And frankly, they probably didn't really feel that threatened by Russia either because Russia was going to be hard to put over.
Um, you know, here's a band who's a progressive metal band. I mean, basically the first band trying to do a new genre. Really. Um, and so it's odd. And then you got Getty, it's this odd voice and they, you know, they, they kind of, uh. Yeah. Three guys, they've got their hands full, so they can't really go crazy on stage.
So they're not, they're not challenging kissing in the stage show or even how good songs go over live because simple songs in a bad live sounding environment sound better than complicated songs. Right. So, so, so they like having them as a sport that they don't, they don't feel threatened. Um, [00:15:00] Aerosmith apparently didn't, didn't treat them so well.
They played a lot of shows with Ted Nugent. Um. Boy, who else, probably probably almost every single band from the seventies. They would have played with cheap trick and sticks and, um, all these guys because basically, um, it wasn't as structured as it became where you would have touring packages and you'd play Haiti dates together.
It was more like, jump on, jump off. It, uh, you know, and even in between, you would do a, you would play smaller Gates. You would play club gigs or theater gigs in between shows sometimes, uh, just because it's so expensive to stay on the road. So, so yeah. Fan Lizzie, queen, um, boy, uh, pretty much everybody. And then as they got a little bigger, they had the baby rush supporting them the whole time.
Max Webster, we were a great, great band, uh, also here out of Toronto. Um, and they were, they were there. You know, talk about the Canadianness of the loyalty. They had a Canadian ban, but basically they have the small Canadian ban supporting them pretty much all through their complete rise [00:16:00] up until about 1980 1981.
Wow,
Kris Kosach: [00:16:03] that's amazing. Um, okay, so, uh, let's see. I gotta take him a little bit of a break here for a second. You're answering some of my questions, which is great. Um, okay. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Let's talk about the criticism. Boy. These guys, they, they got a lot of, they, they got hit with things on stage, right?
Like bullet shells and. Bottles and stuff like that, but they also really got clobbered by some of these critics and with the comparisons to led Zepplin as well. How did they deal with that?
Martin Popoff: [00:16:40] Not that, well, they really didn't like it. I mean, and they, and they kind of will admit that they're a little honest about that.
It did really rankle them. Um, it stealed their resolve, I guess, to, to go on. Um, but they also, I think probably at the same time realized, uh, that they were suddenly going to be a little [00:17:00] bit of a different band, more of a people's band because. When you became a fan of Russia, I mean, you could be a pretty fanatic fan and there's lots for you to dig into.
You could dig into the lyrics, you know, as, as a young guy reading meals, you know, lofty lyrics, uh, you know, bringing up mythology and philosophy and all this stuff. And it was pretty flowery poetry, really. Um, you know, so, so that could be really cool for a young kid. And also, if you were. You know, picking up a guitar, bass or drums or whatever yourself and learning.
And, you know, they had a lot of chops as well, so they quickly became a people's band. But, but you're right, the critics, um. Hey, nobody likes a band who, you know, they, they think they can quickly compare them to someone else. So you don't want to be considered a Zepplin copy band or something, which they quickly weren't anyways.
I mean, eventually they, they were not that at all. But Getty's voice is certainly a novelty thing. It's a novelty voice, right? Um, it's, it's very, very different. It's one of these voices that can [00:18:00] make or break how much you like that band or not. And there's, there's not that many, uh, Dan's in that league, and they are one of those.
And then as I, as I alluded to before, I mean the critics essentially like singer songwriter stuff and roots music and blues and folk music and uh, and the grateful dead. And so, so it's essentially that the whole credit class is the class that's sort of married a little more to the coasts. And, and one, there's two things they don't like.
They don't like heavy metal and they don't like progressive rock. So. Um, rush had both of those, so they were getting it from both barrels because here they were smooshing the two together, like a Reese's peanut butter cup, um, and basically inventing progressive metal. So they're really sticking their head out there or their next up there with, with, uh, with two types of music, uh, at once that the critics don't like.
Kris Kosach: [00:18:54] Yeah, that's painful, but, but you know what? It didn't bother them. They were doing it. You're right for the people and for [00:19:00] themselves, not for the label, not for the critics, which I think is so great. Um, you started to mention, Neil, let's talk about Neil a little bit. Everybody knows that when you get every music snob, myself included, knows that when you get the question, who's your favorite drummer?
Right. There is a correct answer and every other answer is incorrect. So that being said, Martin, who's your favorite drummer and why?
Martin Popoff: [00:19:28] That's interesting. Um, it may not be Neil. Uh, it may be Neil and I'll, I'll explain why Neil. Almost deserves to be considered the most famous drummer. But if you really are asking me, um, and not expecting the answer, Neil, or, or you were, um, I would say a boy.
You know what, it just might be Neal, but there are a few. There's, there's John bottom, there's Roger Taylor, there's a Brian Downey from Tim. Lizzie. There's Ian paste, deep purple, right? There's Alex van Halen. There's, there's a lot of drummers. I [00:20:00] really liked Phil Collins, right? Um, but Neil is in a, in a, in a certain class where I think a couple of things about Neil, I think he is probably the Beatles of drummers in two ways.
Uh, one, he's probably the biggest. In inspiration on future drummers. Just the way Beatles are the biggest inspiration on future bands. It goes Beatles, and then it goes kiss. And that's, I don't even think that's up for argument. Um, but, but, so Neil is, is probably the number one most inspirational guy who, who.
Who makes drumming look really exciting and fun with those huge sets and those big times and all the percussion and the bells and everything, and just being almost like the center of attention in a rush show. The other way, he's like the Beatles is that he's almost like, he almost writes songs on the drums.
Uh, or, or, or risks. So, so if the Beatles are considered the greatest songwriters of all time, um, Neo, you know, with those tune [00:21:00] Tom things. Um, you know, those, those great studied rifts that are played more or less the same all the time. He basically, he became, and this is not up for argument either, he is the most eardrums drummer of all time.
So he's the most fun to airdrop too, if you're a drummer eater, or even if you're not a drummer. And, and in that respect, he's writing hooks, songs, riffs on the drums, more so than any other of these drummers that I just mentioned that I love for other reasons. Right. So, so those are the cool things about Neil.
And then the last thing I, I kinda like pointing out, but you know, it's a little contentious, is that if you, you know, you, the critics could say that rush overplayed, like their egos are all over this stuff or something like that. Right? Like, like they have such big egos that they have to show how great players they are all the time.
Right. That's up for debate. But you could say, you know, in certain instances there's an element of overplaying, but what is overplaying, you know, the, the [00:22:00] genius of what rush did is if you're the only ones daring enough to do that, like to play a lot on a, on a, on a pop ballad, like closer to the heart or fly by night.
If you're the only ones daring to do that, you're the only band doing that. And that's kind of cool. You're unique just by doing that. You're doing something that a lot of critics think is in bad taste. But you are the only ones daring enough and courageous enough to do it. So that's the cool thing about Neil too.
You just know totally noticed this drumming. But some people might say it's a form of overplay. Right.
Kris Kosach: [00:22:35] Yeah. I guess I could see that, but, but I've never thought that until you're mentioning just now. Uh, I just thought that they were all very, very passionate. Passion is a word that is used a lot in the book.
They really had a lot of passion for what they do. And I think that shows, the other thing about Neil though too, is, and, and even he got some flack from. I think maybe Uriah Heep somebody, um, in your [00:23:00] eye, Uriah Heep I think, um, just like giggled a little bit when he would come in with his kicks and they like, there's no way that guy's playing all that stuff.
It was the same thing when he auditioned to write. He came in with all this stuff and they're, everyone's like taking a double take. Like, who is this guy? Think he is? But then they, he used it all. He uses every piece of equipment.
Martin Popoff: [00:23:22] Yeah. And that, that, again, if you're an aspiring drummer, you see all these extra cool little things you could do, right.
And it's like, you know, at a rush, Oh, he's going to play the bells now. He's going to hit the gong now, or whatever. Right. Or, or the, or the cow, or the tune pal bells. So, so Neil actually, you know, played a little tune sometimes on some of these things, right? Uh, and then like I say, they, you know, the Tom, Tom's, lots of Tom Thompson, lots of symbols and stuff.
And then as time goes on, as you get in the eighties, he's even got. You know, he's even got like, like an electronic kit, and he turns around a plays in acoustic kit. So he's got all that going on too. He's got extra, extra gizmos just through the rise [00:24:00] of synth drums and things like that. Right. So, um, so yeah, that's it.
And so if you were in a band, like you're right, heap or whatever, and, and you saw the support band, I mean, it, it was just. Titillating to you as a musician. You just looked at these guys and said, wow, you know, that must be a lot of fun to play these complicated songs. Right? Um, and that's every, uh, every musician loves those parts where they get to go and play the challenging part.
Well, rush, all of it was, all of it was challenging, including, you know, fooling around with different time signatures and things like that. So, um. So, yeah, I'm sure bans looked at him and said, man, it must be fun to be in Russia because you do get to hit all these different things.
Kris Kosach: [00:24:38] Yeah, absolutely. And uh, Neil, just one more note on him.
He's also the lyricist in addition to being the drummer, which that's kind of uncommon, but I love how, how well read he was. He really did deserve the name. The professor, like you were just saying, you know, so many people could aspire to him and [00:25:00] learn from him. And in that regard, he truly is a professor.
And so well-read. I don't know if people really realize, not just Tom Sawyer, but so many references. I had a million of them written down here. Um, and I took so many notes and look, I took like 10 pages of notes of your book and I can't find them all now,
Martin Popoff: [00:25:17] but I know. You right. There's, you know, early on
Kris Kosach: [00:25:22] Steinbeck was in there.
Um, yeah. You had so many, yeah. A lot of references and
Martin Popoff: [00:25:29] the history and politics and that as well. Yeah. I mean, and I think one of the great things Neil left, uh, left everybody, including everybody in the band, is I really do believe that that sort of Renaissance man aspect of him drove Alex and, and, uh, and Getty to become.
You know, Renaissance man in their own rights, they have, they had a lot of different interests as time went on. Um, so I think instantly, um, you know, because they, they did not have a preponderance or a predilection to be, uh, to be writing the [00:26:00] lyrics and they, and they, frankly, if they had been writing the lyrics, they probably wouldn't have been that great for a long time because they were just not that into it.
So. It was great that this guy took over. But I think as time went on, including his chops, I think he drove those two guys to be, to be better man and better people and, and, and, and better thinkers and more thoughtful people, uh, in all aspects of their life, uh, as time went on. So I think that's a great, uh, sort of treasure that Nila left those two guys with.
Kris Kosach: [00:26:29] Yeah, absolutely. Um, all right, so. They, as you say, are the people's band. They do it for the people. But the record industry is an industry and it is based on record sales and such. So with their second album, arguably second on mercury. Anyway, I'm Caressa steel. It was a bust and it almost cost them everything, didn't it?
Do you think it's, um. It was Vic, it was their management company [00:27:00] that held mercury to a contract that allowed them to get 2112. Is that correct?
Martin Popoff: [00:27:05] Yeah, that's roughly right. I mean, basically the management, everybody kind of like just politely in a Canadian way, wanted out, wanted them to write some heads.
Um, so, so fly by night did even a little better than rush and then Caressa steel as you correctly point out almost, you know. Crashed the band because it was too weird and too obscure and a little bit dark. Um, but basically, um, you know, they weren't, they were down in the dumps, but they decided, look, if we're going to crash, we're going to crash and flames dramatically.
And they essentially went to Nate, a very similar album to aggressive steel. It was not that much more accessible. It was just way better done. I think there are, there are more. Um, you know, vibrant and dynamic songs on it, more of them that start and, and despite the fact that one side is, is 2012 it's a concept album is better recorded.
It was, I think I had a much more full body locally, you know, bottom end on it. [00:28:00] Um, you know, it was spooky with the, you know, the red pentagram on it and stuff. It's a gatefold, you know, it's a second gate full, but I mean, it's, it's a cool looking record and essentially, um. Almost like in the Nick of time, people decided, we accept this band.
It's catching on. This is cool what we're doing. You know, pro pro rock is a pretty big thing in 1976. It's doing great. Um, so basically I, you know, it, it, it basically. Got into people's mind frame or mindset that, uh, there's a, there's a great elevator pitch on this band. They're the heavy metal progressive rock band, right?
It's just really obvious what they're doing. No one else is doing it. Let's accept it. And, uh, you know, my, my earliest rush memory, although certainly I, I'm pretty sure I knew the band. Two albums, probably three albums before this, but I remember, you know, sitting listening to creme FM in Spokane, Washington, and they played the whole album and you know, this is before it actually came to town.
So I'm sitting there, right, right. Ready to record it. I recorded the whole thing. So, um, you know, [00:29:00] radio was certainly on board. Uh, you know, I, I do subtly remember that even by 1976. I mean, basically everybody was on board thinking. Yeah. Like they were slowly stopping, making fun of this band and thinking of them as minor geniuses.
Honestly, I mean, it frankly feels that way, thinking that, that, that, you know, the new rush album, Lucien, we're going to play this whole album. It's a Canadian band, but we're going to play the entire out. You start to finish on, on FM radio here. So, um, so it's, it's a pretty cool, it's a pretty cool
Kris Kosach: [00:29:36] I'm sorry. The other nice thing about this Zencaster Martin is that, um, like if I'm stepping on your words, Charlene is going to do her magic and it won't appear as though I've done that. Um, so, right. And the same thing with my dog is going crazy right now. There will be no dog. So, um,
Martin Popoff: [00:29:58] almost like by touring the snow [00:30:00] dog, it was a, it's had a nice echo.
Kris Kosach: [00:30:03] That's probably acoustics only if you saw her. She's this tiny little 12 pound mutt, so she's hardly scary looking at all. Um, okay. So. All right. This, this podcast is called text pros and rock and roll. You have a turn of phrase. You have a number of turns of phrases in the book. They're just beautiful.
Martin, there's one in particular that I'd like to read it. It's just a line, but it's, it's really great. Um. 2021 12 marked the germination of the monster cinematic presentations that would increasingly accompany brushes, music on stage. Let's talk about their live shows. Um, they were on tour with kiss and they IM, am I correct in surmising that maybe they picked up, you know, the idea to have more of a stage presence through kiss.
[00:31:00] Martin Popoff: [00:31:01] Hmm. I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure if there's any quotes to that effect.
Kris Kosach: [00:31:06] I'm sure it's either.
Martin Popoff: [00:31:07] Yeah, I'm sure they probably picked it up by osmosis. Um, but one of the, I mean, they were always looking to improve things, but I would say one of the most interesting. Things about them is their intellectual curiosity.
So they were early adopters of technology, always, always, always. So, um, they, they soon were picking up things like bass pedals and moving into rudimentary keyboards, but at the same time they were, uh, they were looking at, uh, rudimentary visuals and, and film and stuff like that behind them because they did realize that they are a trio.
And I've heard this from many trios, but as a trio, you do have your hands full and nobody has their hands. More full as a trio than rush. Um, so as time went on, they essentially kept adding, adding, adding, and then it kept reinvesting in the, into the show. They believed in what they were doing. Um, and the [00:32:00] funny thing is, ironically, you know, you, you mentioned kiss and compare them to kiss as time went on.
Their show basically in the end was bigger than any kiss show could have ever been. I mean, kisses shows always, even right up to the end had had this little sort of, um. Quaintness that took you back to the magic of kiss alive too, and, and destroyer and rock and roll over. But Russia show just got bigger and more impressive and more technologically daunting every year to the point where, um, you know, it was really rapidly accelerating in the eighties and by, by the nineties it was.
Really one of the biggest shows out there with the most, you know, cutting edge technology in terms of the video and how the video was saying to what the van was doing, and little skits before the show even started because they eventually went into an evening with rush where he didn't have a support app.
So the support act was there, films and stuff like that, and they had the washing machines on stage and the a and the rotisserie chickens and [00:33:00] all, all sorts of madness. Right. But, uh, and the other thing to mention about the show is that, um, the rush became one of these cool bands that, uh, that basically, um, you know, once they got into headlining, they never backed up.
They never, they never reversed course. And, uh, and even when they were like down a tiny bit, support, massive bands put it that way. So, so there was not a time when rush went out supporting Metallica or anything like that. Right. Um, so, so essentially as sort of 78 goes into 79 goes into 80, there perennially from this point on a headline act, and they're always thinking like a headline app.
And they're always thinking, what value can we bring? And you know, maybe this is a little Canadian modesty too, but they're thinking, we, you know, nobody wants to look at our ugly faces all the time. Let's give them something else to look at up here. Right. Um, so, so that's, that's kind of the mindset with the show.
And, and they just love technology. They love to gizmos and, and do dads and they, so they put [00:34:00] gizmos and new dads into their show
Kris Kosach: [00:34:01] anytime. That's great. And this is also where things started, uh, flipping for them too. So they had opened for Uriah Heep in the beginning and Nazareth as well, and now those acts were starting to open for them.
Martin Popoff: [00:34:17] Yeah, there was the odd time when that would happen, when those bands are on the descent. That didn't happen very often because essentially they were so loyal to max Webster. They had max Webster's support acts all the time, and then as as you moved into the eighties you got more of the traditional thing where there was probably a little bit of politics about who.
Who supports you, but rush was actually very good there as well, that they did succumb to the politics too much. They essentially took support, acts out that they really thought were really cool and they'd like to show them to a larger audience. So you had bands like prime miss and mr big. Uh, they hadn't really, and back them up, but a famous, uh, you know, at a, at a bar.
Radio city music [00:35:00] hall stand. And they even had a, had a period where they were, you know, trying to be a little more patriotic to Canadians and they would take out, uh, you know, smaller Canadian bands, uh, as support acts. But then eventually, you know, the show got so massive as we were just talking about.
They. They couldn't, they couldn't deal with it. I mean, you couldn't get the, the stage was so complicated. You couldn't put a support act on stage cause they bust something essentially. Right. So, uh, so no, I mean eventually they just had to go out as an evening of rush and again, value for you, for your money.
I mean, they would play a three hour show all the time.
Kris Kosach: [00:35:36] Right, right. Absolutely. Well, they were amazing. Um, in concert and everything else. Uh, that's probably gonna wrap it up. Is there anything that, here's where I'm a little bit different. Is there anything that you wanted to add that I did not ask you about?
Martin Popoff: [00:35:53] Not really. I mean, this book, like I say, I mean, you know, as, as we both know ans ends in the seventies, [00:36:00] so this basically just goes up to, uh, you know, as they're growing, growing, growing. And then in the eighties, they hit really big with moving pictures. But no, it's a sexually, um. What could I say about the book?
I mean, it's got a lot of interview footage, and that's what I always pride myself on with the books is I really try to have a lots of interview footage in these things. So it's, you know, I've, I've heard it described, it's almost like an oral history, but I also added a lot of, um. Analysis of the songs myself inspired by, I had to write these books on a clash and led Zepplin where I had to write four or 500 words on every single song.
And so, you know, with this rush one, I thought, okay, right, I'm going to put on the headphones and listen to what's going on in the left channel, right channel and that kind of stuff. So, so a lot of everything in these handy. What else? I mean, you can, uh. Martin popoff.com is my site. I'm signing them. I'm sending them out from here.
There's a PayPal buy now, buttons for everything. All my books, anything that's in print, basically I have in my office and I sign and send them out from [00:37:00] here. It's a big part of my, uh, basically what I do every year is, is mail order my own stuff.
Kris Kosach: [00:37:06] That's amazing. That's great. I mean, that's not because the world is sideways right now.
That's just what you do.
Martin Popoff: [00:37:12] I would have done that anyways. And, uh, and I self published a lot of books too, where I'm the only place you can get them. So I just firmly believe in mail order. I mean, the whole, the whole book selling system is, is somewhat broken, not as broken as CD selling, of course. Um, but, uh, but no, I just.
I've always liked mail order. I think it's just a good way to go. You don't have to rely on anybody else. There's not, there's not all these different math in the margins and everything and returns and all that, and we're consigning. I don't do a lot of consigning, so I just, I just liked the quaintness of mail order, so I always have a large supply of anything.
Uh, to, to sign and send out from here.
Kris Kosach: [00:37:52] That's awesome. Okay. Tell us your website one more time.
Martin Popoff: [00:37:55] Um, Martin popoff.com.
Kris Kosach: [00:37:57] Alright, that's fabulous. Thank you Martin. And then I'm going to [00:38:00] put in a little, uh, prerecorded tag on this too, to say thank you with all of our credits and all that stuff, but I won't bore you with that part, but thank you so much for being part of this.
Martin Popoff: [00:38:10] Thank you. I'm glad we could just sort her out.
Kris Kosach: [00:38:12] Yeah, me too. We'll have to have you back.