Filmmaker Alison Ellwood talks with Kris about her new EPIX documentary "Laurel Canyon".
On this track, Kris welcomes to the program, filmmaker Alison Ellwood, director of the 2 part documentary Laurel Canyon.
For more about the documentary, CLICK HERE.
Watch Laurel Canyon now, available on EPIX.
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‘TEXT PROSE AND ROCK N ROLL’- is the only podcast dedicated to the written account of musicians. From artist memoirs to band bios, and anything in between. You'll hear first accounts from those who lived the lifestyle; a Book Club that rocks - literally.
It was Created, Hosted & Executive Produced by Kris Kosach.
It was Produced & Edited by Charlene Goto of Go-To Productions.
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Text, prose & RocknRoll
Guest: Alison Ellwood - Laurel Canyon (documentary)
Host, Kris Kosach: THE LAUREL CANYON MUSIC SCENE IN THE 60S AND 70S WAS GAME CHANGING FOR THE INDUCTRY- GVING BIRTH TO A NEW SOUND, CELEBRITY LIFESTYLE AND DOZENS OF SUCCESSFUL ARTISTS. ON TODAYS SHOW WE TALK WITH FILMMAKER ALLISON ELLWOOD WHO’S NEW DOCUMETNARY CAPTURES A TIME AND PLACE IMPERATIVE UNIQUE IN MUSIC HISTORY.
My name is Kris Kosach I created this PROGRAM to HIGHLIGHT THE WRITTEN ACCOUNT OF MUSIC, FROM BAND biographies, TO memoirs and THE OCCASSIONAL ROCK DOC, WE ARE THE ONLY PODCAST OF ITS KIND. THIS IS TEXT PRSE AND ROCK N ROLL.
TRACK 7 LAUREL CANYON
Music
Kris Kosach: Your documentary, it answers the following question, but I, I actually want to hear it from you. Um, when did Laurel Canyon become such a magnet for musicians?
Alison Ellwood: Well, it actually, during the jazz, in the decades before the, in the forties, it was a bit of a, of a magnet for musicians back then also.
But for this particular era, it was really, once the birds were settled there by around 65 and they had their hit with tambourine men that people in the East coast started hearing that the birds were having all this success out in California. And the sort of the, there was the Exodus from the Brill building, the songwriters writing songs for other people transforming into the singer song.
So people started heading West and once they got there, they were like, Oh, you got to go check out Laurel Canyon. The rents are cheap. They're right up the Hill from the clubs. And that's how it sort of happened. And his Crosby says initially it was just a few Zappa was there before anybody. And then Crosby and the, and the birds were there.
And then people just started arriving and yeah. You know, within a couple of years it was, you know, seen of 50 people.
Kris Kosach: That's amazing. It was very, very social wasn't it
Alison Ellwood Doors were open and people would float in and out from each other's homes and carrying guitars and say, Hey, this is what I'm working on.
What do you got? And, you know, it was a very fluid and time of sharing music and, and lives. It was pretty magical time. I think to have lived through; I would have loved to experience it.
Kris Kosach: That would have been neat. Now you also get into the, what they call the, the queen of Laurel Canyon, Cass Elliott. Her door was always open.
Alison Ellwood: Yes, absolutely. And her place was pretty much, you know, grounds, ground, you know, central for all of the activity there and all of the people meeting there were always picnics happening. And, you know, people have asked me whether it was planned. I got; I don't think anything was ever planned specifically.
I think things just happen very often. And her doors were over. I mean, it sounds like doors were pretty much always out. Like Johnny Echols tells a story of coming home and finding someone. You know, sleeping in his bed, you know, to leave food in the fridge for people who just happen to crash. So, yeah. Yeah.
But, yeah, Mama Cass was like the Gertrude Stein of, of Laurel Canyon.
Kris Kosach: That's a great comparison. So you touched on something just there that I was going to get into later, but let's talk about it now. So, uh, yeah, Eccles talks about coming home and there's someone in his bed and someone was not. Peace love and understanding a little bit more, a little more, uh, uh, infamous in that detail.
Alison Ellwood: Well, it was, um, one of the, a young guy who, um, Beausoleil, what was his first name? I'm
Kris Kosach: Bobby, Bobby Beausoleil.
Alison Ellwood: -who was in, in an early iteration of Love. He was a musician. So Johnny knew him from there. And Bobby came by with his girlfriend from. From the, the family of the Manson family, Sadie, um, and you know, within a few short months, they were both arrested for the murders.
Um, and he, you said, you know, the, the sweet kid that he wants new had completely changed and you know, was saying, well, maybe I'll come visit you. It sounds like it's kind of, you call it. And he's like, nah, Charlie, doesn't like black people. You can't come. And he's like, why are you hanging out with a racist?
You know what what's happened to you? And. You know, sadly he had been sucked into that whole scene.
Kris Kosach: That's, it's very creepy. I love, yeah. It's very important that you brought that up because it really kind of changed the entire vibe of that, that like open door kind of policy. Didn't it.
Alison Ellwood: People locked started locking their doors. And in society at large hippies weren't were no longer long-haired freaks. They were considered potentially dangerous. And even Henry Delt says he thought twice about picking up hitchhikers, [00:04:00] whereas before he wouldn't have ever thought about it, David Crosby says he went out and bought a shotgun.
But most significantly, the thing that changed is that people started locking their doors. So it wasn't quite that open feeling. Plus, you know, the, the undercurrent and also it was attached to the music scene. Cause Charlie Manson was a wannabe rock and roll guy who happened to be really bad. And Terry Melcher said, no, he stinks, and he wouldn't help them.
And so there was, you know, there was a direct connection to the music world there. Um, as there was with Ultima, the concert vote, you know, the hell's angels, it all went awry. So all of, you know, the music seemed like it was separate from that darkness, but suddenly there were all these things connected.
Kris Kosach And you talk about Alta model a little bit, but only in that, that all the people that were at many of the people that were at. Altima and on that bill and Monterey pop, they all had kind of started in Laurel Canyon, which brings us back to the Canyon.
Alison Ellwood: Even though they went and did those things. So, yeah, same with Woodstock at the end of part one.
Kris Kosach: They were trying to achieve a Woodstock West coast, but they were just. Did it really? So who are some of the names that came out of Laurel Canyon? And again, you can see all of this on the documentary, but just to tease us, tease us. Alison,
Alison Ellwood: The Buffalo Springfield, Crosby, Stills, and Nash. Then later Crosby, stills, Nash, and young Jackson Browne, Linda Ronstadt, Bonnie Ray, a little feet. Love the Eagles later on. Gosh, I'm probably miss Escher. Pull the poster up. I can read off. I might have I missed any, but I'm sure.
Kris Kosach: Well, sure, sure you did because there's too many to mention, but it's not your fault. There's just too many. But what I found really interesting that I didn't know, and I'm an audio file. I did not know that because of some of these liaisons and friendships like Linda Ronstadt, uh, she had a couple of the Eagles and that's how Don Henley and, and Glenn Frey met and, and the whole thing start from the, I didn't realize that it was just a bunch of people being friendly.
But they actually started to collaborate that way and become these huge bands. I didn't realize that. Laurel Canyon did that. It’s a nice story that you've woven together here. Um, uh, so, and a lot of songs came out of those sessions as well. Can you name a couple off the top of your head?
Alison Ellwood: Graham Nash wrote about. Living with Johnny. They literally went out for brunch one day and he's, you know, he tells the story about, you know, I'll light the fire, you get some flowers for the VAs that we just bought. And they'd literally just done that. Love Street. The Doors song was written about a Laurel Canyon. People Are Strange was written about after Jim has a tonight in Laurel Canyon and, um, goes up to watch the sunrise and all these people start coming out of the woodwork and he's starts thinking, okay, people are strange things aren't so bad.
So, you know, Johnny wrote all of the album Blue while living in Laurel Canyon. And then of course, Ladies of the Canyon is about the the ladies of the Canyon! And the Mamas and Papas, you know, ‘young, young girls are coming to the Canyon’. Lots and lots of music came out of there that made,
Kris Kosach: I assume lots and lots of babies! Which you don't go into, but I would assume like China Phillips and others. As for The Monkees… I knew that Peter Tork was the ‘real’ musician in the Monkees. I've known that for a long time. And his friendship with Stephen Stills, is basically what got him there, but he was part of that [Laurel Canyon] fabric before he became a pop star, quote, unquote, air quotes here. Wasn't he?
Alison Ellwood: Well, you know, I, I'm not sure exactly what I said. I mean, the Monkees were up there. They bought houses up there. Because they all owned houses up there because their show is so successful.
So Peter and Steven knew one another, but I think the monkeys were pretty successful by the time they were in Laurel Canyon. Your houses were party centrals too. Cause they won. They had money to throw parties constantly. Um, but they were very well respected within the, within the community. They were not considered outsiders at all.
And in fact, the first day we were filming with Henry Delt. That was actually the day Peter Tork died. We, you know, Henry got that call that day. And when that happened, obviously it was very sad, but, um, we also realized that's the way to weave this in. It's going to come as a surprise. And then you realize how integral to the community they were.
Kris Kosach: You go into it in the documentary a lot more than that, which is great. And people should definitely see it to, uh, to appreciate that. The monkeys. Just one more question about them. I'm thinking stream of consciousness there. Um, they took themselves seriously. At one point they wanted to be considered legit rock stars. How did rock stars view The Monkees?
Alison Ellwood: Well, you know, there's the song. So you want to be a rock and roll star, which is depending on who you talk to, we'll say it was written about the monkeys. Some people will say, well, I mean, they, it, wasn't rather, um, you know, the, the, the other musicians really truly respected them.
And, and, um, you know, respected that they wanted to become more serious musicians. I mean, you know, Peter did wasn't musician before, but the others really learned and, and good seriously and, and really tried to, to hone their skills as musicians. Did I answer the question? I feel like I veered off.
Kris Kosach: Oh, you absolutely answered the question.
Alison Ellwood: One more interesting thing about that in the film is that Stephen stills almost became a Monkee. He auditioned, but because he had the snaggletooth, he said, Oh, well, I'll send my roommate down. And that was Peter Tork.
Kris Kosach: That's amazing. Can you imagine The Monkees with Stephen Stills?
It would just be so strange not to mention. We wouldn't have Crosby Stills, Nash, and Young at all. Um, It's. Yeah. And, and, and of course, Neil Young being the star of that show, you know, it wasn't meant to be, but he was kind of the breakout. And, and then my generation, you know, Gen X, we, we wrote this whole new wave of Neil young in the nineties because Kurt Cobain was a big fan of his.
And so, so I think your documentary really kind of brings home that it kind of sums it up. You know, the eighties, maybe not the eighties so much, but the nineties and coming into a,
Alison Ellwood: Do you know what I mean? And that's, what's so great is that so many people do know who these musicians are. Some don't necessarily know like who the birds are, but they know David Crosby and, you know, they know the names of the people.
Um, and what's been interesting as I've been talking to friends of mine that have, you know, teenage or early twenties kids that are just mesmerized by it. And it's like, I didn't know any of that stuff, but it's really fun to rediscover.
Kris Kosach: It really is. And then some of the songs too, you may not know who the band like love.
I'm not terribly familiar with love, but I sure know their music, you know? Exactly. Um, okay. So it's very interesting, but you just happen to touch on. Riots and civil rights and, uh, government like pounding the people and the people taking it to the streets in this documentary. Can you touch upon that?
Because it's such a, I'm getting chills just saying this outside outdoors right now, or thousands of thousands of people, tens of millions of people protesting around the United States around the world. Can you touch on that a little bit?
Alison Ellwood: It speaks to how, um, in some ways how things never change, which is sort of sad.
Cause we think that we've come so far. Um, and then the same stuff is going. We have perpetual war that's even worse than the Vietnam War was in terms of being so perpetual. You know, I think what happened when, you know, when they, with the rise. I mean, we, first of all, it happened because these kids couldn't get into the first riot happened because the kids couldn't get into this club and it became, you know, Steven wrote for what it's worth, which has become an Anthem for the Vietnam War.
And for youth protest and which it obviously was a song about youth protest, but it wasn't didn't have the gravitas when it was originally conceived that it is sin. Have come to hat, which is really exciting about how music can be reinterpreted by, by people across the decades. So I think that those songs are just as relevant now, and I hope that this.
This movement that's sparked in the country at the moment that it actually feels like it might start to have real teeth. Um, I heard a Reverend Al Sharpton who did the eulogy for George Floyd's Memorial yesterday. And he told a story on the news this morning saying he was Mark protesting in Minneapolis in, uh, he got a little tug on his shirt and he turned around and it was an 11 year old white girl holding a sign saying, no peace, no justice with her fist in the air.
And he said, At that moment, I feel like I realized something has seismically shifted, which let's hope that that's true.
Kris Kosach: That's beautiful. Once again, I'm getting chills. Speaking of, as the Zeitgeist changes you talk in the documentary about how things changed. The, of course, the riots and civil rights and all those things back in the early seventies were a big part of that, but it was more than that too.
Uh, in. In this case, you talk a little bit about how Glenn Frey, how the sound changed a little bit from that peace and love, or from kind of from the sixties, pop into the peace and love. And then it started to go into like a country bluegrass, kind of a feel with Linda Ronstadt and the Eagles and such, then came the success.
Do you think. The sound changed and therefore Laurel Canyon changed, or do you think the success came and therefore the artists changed? What changed?
Alison Ellwood: I don't know that the sound changed all that much. I mean, the country influence was weaving through all along. I mean, folk was being left behind. I mean, the birds did a country album basically.
Um, the Eagle second album was essentially a country album. Um, so that was sort of always floating in the air there. People were playing with different styles and, and. Um, you know, there's a lot of fusion happening in that sense, but I, I think it truly was the success. As Linda says in the film, they were no longer playing the Troubadour for one another and small crowds.
They were out doing arenas and stadiums. So they just, they weren't there. They weren't sharing in the same way. So I think it was a success that sort of drove people apart. They started making money of course, and could afford bigger fancier houses and other places. Um, and I think one of the biggest.
Contributing factors to the shift. There was really this shift in drugs from, from I'm hot to Coke, and everybody talks about how coke just sort of came in and just. Was a knife in the, in the whole thing, because it, you know, it just, it, it brought out different behaviors and more selfishness and, and, um, yeah, I mean, it's just, it's a really, you know, an addiction. It's a really bad drug.
Kris Kosach: I think someone says this in the documentary recently, Jenny Boyd, Pattyie Boyd's sister was on the show and she was talking about cocaine in the seventies. And how Fleetwood Mac started taking it simply to get through their sessions at two, three, four, five o'clock in the morning.
Did you find that to be true as well? Or do you think it was more recreational? They wanted to expand their minds like they had with the LSD.
Alison Ellwood: I think it was initially, I don't think coke is in a mind expanding thing. It feels, it feels like it, but it's ultimately not. I mean, you know, I, I think that they, I think it was initially to get through sessions because you could, you know, work longer.
I think it made them think that they were being creative and productive well into the night when in fact they would later all of them, every single one of them later says what they realized, what they were doing later was just garbage on that stuff. And it was, um, You know, so I, I think it was started like that, but then it became, you know, recreational, um, and you know, I mean, everybody was doing it in the seventies and eighties.
I cringe when I think about kids doing it again. Now it's like, really?
Kris Kosach: People don't learn, people don't learn. Um, if you had to make a prediction right now, we were just saying that the tone of the United States is changing much like it did in the early seventies. You think a lot of good music is going to come out of that.
Alison Ellwood: Let's hope so. Let's hope music is what speaks to everybody universally, no matter what language it's in. Um, you know, and I, and I think we have so many things similar happening now that were happening. That were happening then let's, let's hope that some really good music comes out of it.
Kris Kosach: And then you can just change so much. It's so different than it was it's, you know, it's like, it's so hard to get a deal now, and it's so hard to stay on top and to sell and to make money, because those days are over. I was talking, a friend of mine is a tour and guitarist in a big band. And he said that, um, those rock star days are over. Yes, you still do the arenas. But now the tour is the paycheck and they can't tour.
Alison Ellwood: You're brutal. And now they can't tour at all, but it's awfully, it's awfully hard on them.
Kris Kosach: The stars there on the documentary, uh, Don Henley and David Crosby are these folks they're kind of, they're reliving this world again.
Are they being vocal, um, in your summation right now of what's happening because it's kind of Deja Vous for them.
Alison Ellwood You know, I, I haven't heard [00:18:00] from those two specifically, that doesn't mean they're not talking. I know Graham Nash has been pretty vocal. Um, Let's see who else? Um, yeah, I can't think of anybody else off hand.
Kris Kosach: I'm not going to put y'all on the spot.
Alison Ellwood: No. I mean, I know, you know, people have been been interviewing, um, Johnny Echols for the, for this project. So he may very well be voicing some stuff. I mean, he's very political. Um, so I hope that they are.
Kris Kosach: That's great. Alright, so let's talk a little bit about you making this documentary. There's a hell of a lot of amazing footage in this thing. It should have taken you a decade to put this together. Tell us the story of how it all came together. How'd you get involved? What was the spark that began this doc?
Alison Ellwood: Well, this, this, the idea to make this film was something I had over 20 years ago when I was living in Los Angeles, I've always been a door's fan and was interested in looking into making a film about them, [00:19:00] found out about them living in Laurel Canyon, then all these other connections with these other artists.
So then I broadened the scope of the project and. Unfortunately, back then the music rights were owned by so many different people and people weren't willing to negotiate at that point. So I had to kind of drop it. So it came back around a few years ago, um, through Kennedy Marshall and Jigsaw Productions.
And, I was thrilled to have it back in my life. And so we worked on it for a couple of years, developing and working on a deck and stuff in a sizzle reel. And then we found our home at epics. And once we actually started. It was about a year to complete, which was very fast considering the scope of the project.
Kris Kosach: Had you already amassed that amazing collection of visual?
Alison Ellwood: No. We had him, we had armies of people and really talented researchers and producers working to, to find all this stuff. And we were literally funding things up to the very last minute.
Kris Kosach: That's great. Um, and was it meant to be a two parter?
Always?
Alison Ellwood: Well, originally, we had conceived of it as a three parter, but in the end, I think it actually is better as a two part. I think it's a more, it's an easier split to make in the time in the timelines, like the first 65 to 70, essentially than 70 to 75. Um, and I, you know, just the Woodstock being the end of part one and, and it's ostensibly Ultima slash Manson murders.
Coming at the beginning of two and it just, there there's a real split that happened. I think story-wise is interesting. Yeah, we knew early on that we didn't want anybody to be on it camera, except our photographers, Henry Delt and Nurit Wilde. They were going to be our guides through this and that everyone else was going to be voiceover only, um, you know, one it's I think it's kind of cool to get interviews with people on audio only. I think they tend to let their hair down a little bit and it becomes more conversational. It's also less intimidating to have a camera in front of you. And also a lot of the artists unfortunately are no longer with us. So there was always going to be that disparity of seeing people now versus, you know, people like Jim's not here, we didn't see him.
So we just decided everyone would be voiceover. And we pulled, you know, we did our own interviews with virtually everyone in the film. Who's still living with the exception of Joni and Neil who notoriously don't do interviews. Um, Carol King and James Taylor, we would have loved to have include in, in the film.
Um, but they also were not, um, Yeah, not interested in doing an interview and there's some archival interviews of them, plenty of them, but neither of them ever really spoke about Laurel Canyon. And, you know, Carol was more of a fixture there for a bit, but she was also a little bit more on her own other than obviously Troubadour connection, but it would have been nice to get them.
Um, but in any case, yeah, so we, we wanted all the voice, all the audio and all the interviews to be audio only.
Kris Kosach: That's very smart, especially since you're talking about the business of sound. Yeah, a lot of it makes sense. Um, okay. Uh, there is another documentary out there, coincidentally, at this very time.
How does Laurel Canyon, uh, uh, how, how does it stand apart?
Alison Ellwood: I mean, they're very different films. Um, I knew that, um, echoes onion was being made. Um, they were a little bit ahead of us in their schedule. Um, and I knew it was, it had actually been released while we were still working on it and I intentionally didn't see it, um, just cause I didn't want it in any way influenced me or anything.
Um, some of our producers did see it just to make sure that there wasn't crossover of footage that was going to be duplicated. Um, But they're very different films. I mean, Echols focuses on a much smaller time piece and is a different way into it with Jakob Dylan. We're, you know, we're just sticking with the artists of that time. So it's just a very different approach.
I think if anything, maybe it was trying to get, you know, other artists interested in this music and re-exposed them. So in that respect, I think it was, you know, it's great that that's out there doing that. You know, and I hope this can do the same. Um, you know, just, just we, we went about it in a different way. That's all.
Kris Kosach: Towards the end of the film, you illustrate how the Canyon changed as people became stars. And we talked about that a little bit, but you go far much further into it in the documentary. And I don't want you to talk about that anymore because I do want listeners to go and see Laurel Canyon on epics. How can people see it? And what's next for you?
Alison Ellwood: Epix is running it On Demand. Part one people can see now and part two airs this Sunday, which is I believe the seventh visit.
They’re also doing a seven-day free trial, so people that want to check it out. So I encourage people to check it out. If you don't have ethics, a lot of people haven't, they, they, there's still a lot of people that don't really know much about it, and it's a great network. So I hope people can check it out.
Um, as for what's next, I have no idea.
Kris Kosach: - What'd you do another rock documentary?
Alison Ellwood: - Sure I love doing. I, you know, I also have the Go-Go's film. That's about to be released, but I did simultaneously to this one, so that one's going to be released on Showtime, uh, August 1st.
Kris Kosach: - Well, we are gonna talk to you again before August 1st (laughs), if that's okay with you?
Alison Ellwood: (laughs) That would be lovely. Yeah. I feel like I lived in the LA music scene from 65 to 85, between the two projects.
Kris Kosach: Thank you so much for joining me.
BE SURE TO CATCH LAUREL CANYON – THE DOCU SERIES- NOW AVAILABLE ON DEMAND ON EPIX. MY GUEST HAS BEEN FILM MAKER ALLISON ELLWOOD WHO WE LOOK FORWARD TO HAVIGN ON FUTURE EPISODES TO TALK ABOUT HER WORK W THE GOGOS. AND SPEAKIGN OF WHICH – YOU DO NOT WANT TO MISS MY DISCISUSION WITH GOGOS BASSIST KATHY VALENTINE AS WE DISCUSS HER BRUTALLY HONEST MEMOIRE “ALL I EVER WANTED’. THAT’S NEXT TIME ON TEXT PROSE AND ROCK N ROLL. HERES THIS WEEK’S LINER NOTES
TEXT PROSE AND ROCK N ROLL WAS CREATED, WRITTEN AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCED BY YOURS TRULY, IN ASSOCOIATION WITH GOTO PRODUCTIONS, CHARLENE GOTO PRODUCER.
SPECIAL THANKS TO MAUREEN GRANADOS AND THE ENTIRE TEAM AT EPIX.
BE SURE TO SUBSCRIBE, RATE & COMMENT WHEREVER YOU FIND YOUR PODCAST CONTENT AND FOLLOW US ON INSTAGRAM WHERE YOU CAN DM US AND YES WE DO TAKE REQUESTS. FOR TEXT PROSE AND ROCK AND ROLL, I'M KRIS KOSACH. ROCK ON.
MUSIC FADES OUT
END OF EPISODE
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